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interview
"I was unprepared for how much it would shift me off my axis," Cate Blanchett says of the new musical language and world she inhabited for her starring role in 'TÁR.'
"I was unprepared for how much it would shift me off my axis in a wonderful and deep way," Cate Blanchett says of her work on the sublime new film TÁR. The Todd Field-helmed film centers on the actor’s performance as the titular conductor, a woman navigating conflicted power dynamics and personal struggles while also attempting to write an orchestral masterwork.
As the film delves deeper into her psyche, that dreamlike music seems to consistently ring out just past the edges of her hearing. Paired with a score from Hildur Guðnadóttir (in her first film since her Oscar-winning composition for Joker), Blanchett’s performance allows TÁR to stretch and mold across revelatory levels of realism and tumultuous emotion.
A big part of building to that point came in Blanchett’s quest to submerge herself not only in orchestral music, but in the language of music — an experience which has changed her entire world. "Since completing production, I have felt an enormous orchestral-shaped hole in my daily life," she tells GRAMMY.com.
Where other "music films" relish the big performances, the epic expression, TÁR presents unique look at the other side of musical creativity. As Lydia Tar, Blanchett gives the audience access to the innermost thoughts and feelings that occur in rehearsal rooms and practice spaces. With that unique vantage point, in a world where everything is inherently political, Blanchett and TÁR ask the audience whether they separate the art from the artist. The film, too, asks whether the artist can achieve that feat themselves.
Fresh off the national theatrical release of TÁR, the celebrated actor spoke with GRAMMY.com about how preparing for the film impacted her personal life, the unique communicative skill of the conductor, and the film’s complex study of power dynamics.
The phrase "losing yourself in the art" has almost become a cliche, without thinking about the emotional impact that that kind of commitment will have on an actor. Before you took on this role, did you think about what kind of impact it would have on your day-to-day life and your psyche?
I was ready and hungry for the opportunity to approach the ideas so dangerously alive in Todd Field’s screenplay, but I was unprepared for how much it would shift me off my axis in a wonderful and deep way. I have never had a static sense of identity — maybe that’s why I’m an actor. So I have never feared losing myself in anything.
However, this was such an immersive and electric project, I feel somehow newly minted by it. I’m still tingling from the intensity of it all. You are laid bare in ways through your work that you can’t fully comprehend, but that you should comprehend — and that is often deeply confronting.
What was your familiarity and interest in classical music coming into this project, and how has your understanding of it changed over time?
This was a deep dive for me. Prior to this project I was a classical music tourist. I fear I still very much am, but I needed to understand the map of the canon and the institutional wrestle to bring it into the contemporary listening experience in a way that was deep and authentic. Additionally, [I needed] to be able, as much as humanly possible, to understand the secret language of musicians and composers.
All I can say is, since completing production, I have felt an enormous orchestral-shaped hole in my daily life, so something has certainly shifted. To be honest, it’s hard to discuss as I’m still processing how to incorporate the deep aspects of the musical experience into my everyday life and work.
How did learning the intricacies in the language of music and composing differ from learning an accent or language for another project?
They are very similar processes. Technical and muscular at first, but then one has to throw away the homework and just converse. Music is a language after all, and as a conductor one gets to express umpteen lines simultaneously and bring them all together. What a powerful skill!
I loved the line in the beginning of the film where your character mentions that the only real discovery is in the rehearsal, never in performance. Does that sentiment resonate with you as an actor?
When I was at drama school, I adored rehearsal and felt too exposed by turning it all out in the performance. Over many years on stage, I have learned to relish the performance — the ephemeral, truly temporal nature of it all. The danger. I love the cut and thrust of being part of an ensemble in dialogue with an audience [that] gets to go out each night to discover something fresh.
The role and the film have a lot to do with power structures, something we don't always keep in mind when we are listening to music or watching a film. Do you think the film would have the same reception or focus if it weren't for its timing in regard to public reviews of people in power?
Art transcends politics, it transcends the quotidian, yet it can work through and beyond these boundaries whilst still touching on both experiences. That is its power. It does, as you suggest, transport us.
The film is, amongst many other things, an examination of power which is much more ancient and urgent than a critique of zeitgeist-y subjects like "cancel culture." I find it very hard to define this film. In fact, I’m loath to. I’d much prefer others to see it open-heartedly and discuss it amongst themselves.
Read more: 'TÁR' Composer Hildur Guðnadóttir On Making Music For A Film About Making Music
Obviously, you worked with a lot of musicians in this role, but how did you interact with Hildur Guðnadóttir's score?
It was integral to my understanding of the character. Lydia Tár is a composer in the midst of a composition while she is more celebrated as a conductor, but passionate about finding her voice in this form. The fact that she dedicates this piece to her daughter — the primal relationship in the film — is an indication of how central the composition is to the understanding of her emotional core. Hildur was alive to this and innately understood the performer vs. composer push and pull.
Was that something that was utilized while you were on set at all, or only something you discovered later?
We discussed what this composition should be at length in pre-production, as I wanted to fold its sound and ambition into my own preparation. I wanted to know what Lydia was reaching for. I also needed to know the piece as Todd had written several scenes where Lydia was returning to the piece, playing it, finessing it, obsessing over a misstep in the composition — finding herself in "pastiche."
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Photo: Dimitrios Kambouris/Getty Images for FLC
interview
"Every film is a universe," Hildur Guðnadóttir says of her composing work. For 'TÁR,' the new film starring Cate Blanchett as a difficult conductor with a tempestuous life, Guðnadóttir explored the process of rehearsal as much as the music itself.
The drive for sublime communication and its breakdowns sits at the core of the dizzyingly immersive film TÁR. Written and directed by Todd Field, the film revels in its study of a high-profile classical composer attempting to write her own masterpiece while simultaneously fighting through noise and conflict — often of her own making. The always-magnificent Cate Blanchett turns in a tour de force as Lydia Tár, while the unparalleled sound design demonstrates how even the smallest intrusion can pick and pluck at any shred of calm she hasn’t already destroyed with her own choices.
In her first score since her Oscar-winning work for Joker, Hildur Guðnadóttir faced the unenviable task of writing music for a film about a music virtuoso. But rather than merely attempt to write the career-defining music at the story’s core, the Icelandic composer masterfully crafted a score about the act of rehearsing, making, and struggling to make music instead.
"That's what I find so unbelievably interesting about music," Guðnadóttir says. "What you hear as the final version is just the very tip of the iceberg because, behind the music, are so many years of practicing, rehearsing, failed attempts."
The result is a score that haunts the film’s edges: the chatter of musicians, wordless vocals, and snippets of music as viable and important as any concerto or symphony. "It's almost like an invisible layer, as if there's a ghost in the room that you can feel, but you don't see," she explains. The music represents one layer of an intricately stratified sonic whole, roiling at all the right places and darting out of sight at others.
TÁR was released nationally on Oct. 28, alongside a concept album on the legendary classical label Deutsche Grammophon (a vinyl release, and international release of the film, will come early next year). The GRAMMY-winning composer spoke with GRAMMY.com about "tempo mapping" each character and scene before a second of the film was recorded, and the difficulty of representing a conductor’s role via music.
How does it feel to be finally sharing the finished product of all of your work?
Oh, it's feeling wonderful. It's amazing how the film seems to be speaking to people. When you finish a project, you never know what life it's gonna have beyond the finish of post-production.
When you're writing music or recording or creating something, you're having this conversation either with yourself or with other people. In the process of making a film, you're obviously having a large conversation with quite a few people. When what you're working on actually reaches the audience that you're speaking to,as in any conversation, it always really feels lovely when you feel like you're being heard.
It feels really lovely to feel that the conversation is actually continuing, like the audience is resonating with what you're saying, and continuing that conversation actually.
And that's an absolute testament to the film and the work that you did. There are so few places in the music world where communication is as important as it is for the conductor. It was so striking listening to your score with that in mind and thinking about the communication breakdowns that run through the film.
Music is just communication. It's a conversation that goes beyond words. A conductor can use words to express, like, "Okay, it should be in this tempo" or "imagine this when you're playing," but then what's actually being performed or rehearsed or what's being composed goes beyond that. And that's what I find so unbelievably interesting about music, especially about the process of making music. It's so much more than just what you end up hearing.
What you hear as the final version is just the very tip of the iceberg because behind the music are so many years of practicing, rehearsing, failed attempts, having to re-record takes, all of this. And that's the part of music that I almost find more interesting than the actual track or record. As a performer, that's something that I've thought about a lot: How do you just connect to an audience without having to tell them how? How do you just reach that subconscious level of communicating without having to say anything about it?
And I think that's what the film is dealing with in such a beautiful way. The frustrations that Lydia Tár is experiencing in the film [have] so much to do with the miscommunication and misalignment with her own musical drives, and what she actually wants to be doing. The music that she's writing…is from a completely different world from the music that she's conducting and that she's best known for. And that's bringing her to this tough place.
That's probably why she subconsciously works so hard at tearing that down and coming back to the place that she genuinely wants to be working from, which is a place of softness and experimentation. In the very early stages of the script, this was one of the main ideas that formed her character: Where does her actual music that's not this frustrated, angry version of her — where does that actually lie?
Where does it lie for you? Having followed your music for a while, it's clear that it's a natural, living thing for you. How do you approach a project like TÁR that requires that kind of emotional connection and communication?
I try not to work on many projects simultaneously. That's why I basically haven't been working on that many films. I think most people were expecting me to do, like, 10 films a year with a big crew of assistants and all of this after the success of Joker. But that's just not really how I work.
I really enjoy taking enough time for every single project that I work on to really be able to live in the universe that we're creating. Every film is a universe of a story that's being told. And for me to really fulfill my creative needs, basically, I need to have the time and the space to live in that world, in order to serve it best. That means that I can't really work with a whole bunch of assistants and a lot of people that I have to navigate. I have to be by myself a lot with a project to be able to really be honest to it. When I take on a project, it's important that I really feel like I can honestly bring something to the table that is of benefit to whatever's being told. If I'm just taking on a project to sprinkle some underscore, it doesn't fulfill my creative engine in the same way.
Like with TÁR, when I can really work from the script on and I can really be a part of the strands of the DNA of the film, the character building and the temp mapping of the whole film, that's when it's really interesting to me. Music is just such a powerful part of the storytelling process. Having the music existing parallel to the making of the film and getting to grow with the making of the film is just so much more fun for me than running after an edit and post-production.
You live in Berlin, which is also where the film is set. The city has such a powerful musical lineage. Was there any particular inspiration or touchstone that inspired you there?
Yeah, absolutely. What was quite important was that the music and the film was European. From the geological aspect of the film being set in Berlin, it really felt like the music needed to be as European as the setting.
Tell me a little bit about the concept album — which combines recordings of Gustav and Mahler, which Lydia conducts in the film, with your vision of the completed versions of her compositions. How did you initially conceive the project and how it would live alongside the film?
I thought it was incredibly important for this record to exist, because the film itself is all about the process of making music. We're really looking at what it is to write the music, what it is to rehearse the music, but we never actually really hear the music. We just hear snippets of it.
That's what's so beautiful about the film: that's not the important part. The important part is the process. It's such a rare opportunity to be able to work in that way. But it felt like the music still needed to exist as it's finished form. In the film she's working on a release for Deutsche Grammophon, so we thought it was just very important that we did that in reality, in our parallel universe. I recorded the finished version [of the music in the film] and there are also pieces [from] the tempo mapping of the film that Todd and I did with the script before they started shooting. We started by tempo mapping each character and the scenes. And then also there's parts of Mahler that Cate is conducting. And there are also snippets of me talking to the orchestra during the recordings, telling them the emotional direction that I imagine would be helpful for the recordings.
It was a rare and beautiful thing to get to do, this whole musical universe, all of the aspects of music that are so important and so necessary, but the parts that someone that's not a musician will probably never be privy to. There's a lot of score that you don't actually hear. So it's almost like an invisible layer, as if there's a ghost in the room that you can feel, but you don't see.
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Hildur Guðnadóttir wins Best Original Score at the 2020 Oscars
Photo: Kevin Winter/Getty Images
news
She is the fourth woman in the Academy Awards' history to win the category
Icelandic musician and composer Hildur Guðnadóttir won Best Original Score for her score for the 2019 film Joker at the 2020 Oscars. She is the fourth woman in the Academy Awards’ history to win the scoring category and the first to do so in more than 20 years; Anne Dudley, the last woman to win the category, notched the scoring Oscar in 1998 for her work on the 1997 British comedy The Full Monty.
In her acceptance speech, Guðnadóttir nodded to the lack of female representation in the scoring field. “To the girls, to the women, to the mothers, to the daughters who hear the music bubbling within: Please speak up,” she said, “we need to hear your voices.”
Guðnadóttir has been making history this year for her scoring work. Earlier this year, she became the first solo female composer to win the Golden Globe Award for Best Original Score and the BAFTA Award for Best Original Music. Last month at the 62nd GRAMMY Awards, she also won a GRAMMY for Best Score Soundtrack For Visual Media for her work on the HBO drama “Chernobyl.”
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All counting, Guðnadóttir has won a GRAMMY, an Emmy, a Golden Globe, a BAFTA Award and now an Oscar in the past five months, according to Deadline.
In addition to her scoring work, Guðnadóttir has performed and recorded with rock, experimental and electronic bands like Pan Sonic, Throbbing Gristle, Múm and Stórsveit Nix Noltes. She’s also toured with experimental pop band Animal Collective and experimental metal group Sunn O))), in addition to her solo works.
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Photo: Han Myung-Gu/WireImage
list
Get ready for the next BTS solo release — RM's highly anticipated debut album, 'Indigo' — with all the details we have so far, from release date to preorder info.
When global hitmakers BTS announced they would focus on solo music back in June, it gave way to "BTS' Chapter 2." So far, this new era has seen a debut studio album from J-Hope, Jack in the Box — as well as a history-making Lollapalooza appearance — and a solo single from Jin, "The Astronaut." Next up, RM will show off his individual talents with a new solo album, Indigo.
As RM's fans know, he has released mixtapes and collaborated with other artists in the past. He's even branched outside of music on his own, recently announcing his role as MC on the variety show "The Dictionary of Useless Human Knowledge" and serving as an art patron for creators in his native South Korea. But Indigo marks RM's official introduction to solo stardom as a singer, and it comes at a pivotal time for both BTS and its leader.
The beloved K-pop group has been on an unofficial hiatus since June, and their break will now extend until 2025 so all seven members can complete mandatory military duties in South Korea. Luckily for ARMY, that doesn't mean the music is stopping — and for RM, it means he gets to really focus on the music he wants to make.
"Finally, my 1st album will be releasing thanks to everyone," the singer wrote in a WeVerse post. "I worked hard on it for the past 4 years … It will be very different from my past projects."
Fans will soon find out exactly what "very different" means. In the meantime, take a look at everything we know about RM's forthcoming debut solo album, Indigo.
Indigo
2022.12.2.
2PM (KST) | 12AM (ET)#RM #Indigo pic.twitter.com/6xjd0uHdrA
On Nov. 10, RM revealed in a series of Instagram stories that his debut album is slated for a Dec. 2 release. His label, BigHit Music, followed with the official announcement shortly thereafter, sending ARMY into a frenzy of excitement on social media.
RM has previously released two mixtapes, his eponymous project from 2015, and Mono from 2018. He's also released solo singles like 2017's collaboration with Wale, "Change," 2019's "Crying Over You" with HONNE and BEKA, and most recently, he featured on Balming Tiger's song "SEXY NUKIM" in September.
All of the solo music RM has released so far has demonstrated that he can really do it all — from slow crooning R&B, to conscious hip-hop, to moody alternative sounds. As RM teased himself, this album will be "very different" from his previous releases, so fans are likely very eager to see what new sounds he has in store.
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Although RM nor BigHit Music have revealed what the sound of Indigo will be, BigHit did give some insight into the album's content in a Weverse post.
"Through Indigo, RM delivers his candid thoughts and feelings and showcases wide-ranging music through collaborations with various artists," BigHit wrote. "We hope everyone's excited about RM's latest release!"
RM also shared in a livestream on Weverse that Indigo will be "completely different" from Mono. "If 'Mono' recorded my 2016 to '18, then I think this new album serves as my diary and archive for 2019 to '22," he said. And in a Nov. 14 Instagram post, RM also hinted that Indigo is "the last archive of my twenties."
As part of Rolling Stone's Musicians on Musicians series, RM sat down with Pharrell Williams to discuss their respective careers — and also to tease that they have a collab coming. While it hasn't been confirmed if that team-up will be featured on Indigo, RM has mentioned on Weverse that "fun friends" are included on the project.
A post shared by RM (@rkive)
RM's Mono featured a white album cover, and his first mixtape cover was black and white. This time, Indigo consists of a photo of blue — dare we say, indigo — fabric. The album title will be bleached in white. Much like the title suggests, this album may be more colorful than his previous releases, as hinted by the change in aesthetic.
If you're looking to hear Indigo as soon as possible, preorders begin on November 15. After RM has put in four long years of hard work on Indigo, the wait will surely be worth it for RM's official solo debut.
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Photo: Marc Silverstein
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"Any and everyone can be involved in the movement to support more women in music."
From pay gaps to the relative dearth of women in senior management roles, there is significant inequality in today’s workforce. The music industry is no different and the stats are even more harrowing: According to the Recording Academy's Women In The Mix study, women represent only 21 percent of artists, 12.6 percent of songwriters, and 2.6 percent of producers.
Despite some of the most impactful music artists and songwriters being women — from Beyoncė (seven No. 1 albums) and Joni Mitchell (notably credited for influencing Prince, Chaka Khan, Taylor Swift, Neil Diamond, Herbie Hancock, Annie Lennox, among others) to Carole King (who wrote 118 Billboard 100 hits) and Taylor Swift (11 No. 1 albums and the only artist to sweep all top ten spots in the Billboard 100) — 57 percent of women in the industry are forced to work more than one job to make ends meet. Twenty-four percent of Women In The Mix respondents worked over 40 hours a week, and an additional 28 percent log over 50 hours a week.
Music permeates every aspect of our lives. It’s a vital way in how we express ourselves and connect with others. It’s long past time that women got an equal say in that conversation. "Any and everyone can be involved in the movement to support more women in music on various levels" says Girls Makes Beats Founder Tiffany "Delilah" Miranda.
Miranda's organization is one of many dedicated to developing professional opportunities, including mentorship, for women and girls in the music industry. "Providing the tools needed goes a long way towards successful career paths," she says, adding that consumers "can support women in music by listening to, sharing, and supporting female creators."
There are a number of organizations supporting women and girls in audio engineering and production who are working hard to change this narrative. Here are six such orgs that empower women and gender-expansive people to create the future of music.
Girls Make Beats is passionate about helping young women have successful, sustained careers in music. Since 2012, Girls Make Beats has been dedicated to increased female representation in music production and empower the next generation of producers, DJs, and audio engineers by "creating real-world opportunities."
Influenced by jazz greats, like Nina Simone and Etta James, with their larger than life voices, Founder Tiffany "Delilah" Miranda had grown tired of being stifled by male producers. "This inspired me to create my own music," says Miranda. "I quickly realized how male-dominated most of the creative control spaces were and wanted to create a safe space for girls to find their own sound without having to face many of the challenges I had to overcome."
Through their various programs and initiatives, Girls Make Beats emphasizes the tenets of sisterhood, empowerment, mentorship, access and opportunity, leadership, and social-emotional learning. They recently opened an official Girls Make Beats Academy in Los Angeles and also have scholarships available, globally, for their year-round programming.
Based in the San Francisco Bay Area, Women’s Audio Mission (WAM) will soon be celebrating its 20th anniversary. WAM offers training and mentorship for the "advancement of women and gender-expansive people in music/audio production and creative technology, fields in which they are critically underrepresented."
Founded by Terri Winston while she was a Professor and Director of the Sound Recording Arts Program at City College of San Francisco, WAM resides at the intersection of creativity and technology, weaving "art and music with science, technology, and computer programming" in an effort "to close the critical gender gap in creative technology careers."
WAM’s goals are twofold: Increase the number of women and gender-expansive people in the music industry (who make up less than 5 percent of its workforce), and to combat the 70 percent drop in women and gender-expansive people entering college STEM programs since 2000.
Throughout its storied existence, WAM has worked with over 22,000 individuals; been declared the "Best Hope for the Future of Music" by San Francisco Weekly; placed over 1,000 students in jobs throughout the industry (in companies like Dolby Labs, Sony, Pixar, Disney and Google); worked with award-winning artists (such as Sheila E., Kronos Quartet, Neko Case, Angélique Kidjo); and has been recognized by the White House for its innovations in education.
Legendary singer, songwriter, and producer Linda Perry of the 4 Non Blondes has teamed with philanthropist and activist Alisha Ballard to create EqualizeHer, a new initiative and organization working to help bring gender equality to the music industry.
EqualizeHer is focused on four actionable goals: Release and distribute music produced, written, and performed by women; host live music events produced entirely by women; provide opportunities for young female artists to perform in front of live audiences to gain experience and be heard; and work with existing organizations to fill the gaps and join forces.
Through their combined efforts, they’re rallying artists like Paris Jackson (who played a live benefit for EqualizeHer at the renowned LA venue the Troubadour on Oct. 9 with Aimee Mann, Tinashe, Tish Melton, and more). Billie Eilish and Christina Aguilera have also expressed interest in being ambassadors for this organization.
From industry professionals to songwriters, She is the Music, is devoted to increasing the number of women working in music across. They’ve created an international database of women to help the industry discover, connect, and create with women, all of whom have been vetted and verified.
Spearheaded by the inimitable Alicia Keys, along with a cadre of influential and talented women in the industry, "We want to create a model for change that affects women across all industries," Keys told Essence. "We deserve the utmost respect, and so many of these women across industries are telling our culture that time is up on double standards, and it’s over for pay inequity and colleagues who are at best disrespectful and at the worst unsafe — so it’s over for that."
The organization also hosts songwriting sessions and mentorship programs to develop and empower the next generation of women in music. Participants work with artists and receive pertinent, experiential insight into all areas of production, business, touring, and songwriting.
"We are an independent, global network that operates as a unifying organization for women from across the industry," their website states, "creating strength and impact on a global scale. As an umbrella nonprofit, we also provide resources and support for female-focused initiatives that are working to create meaningful change — both through our own programs, as well as external efforts around the world."
As its name indicates, She Knows Tech, concentrates on bringing talented female-identifying producers and engineers and tech performers to the forefront of the industry. The organization provides a safe space and platform for women to give and receive training in music technology.
"Upon learning of the striking gender imbalance and lack of female role models within the industry, we started She Knows Tech to support each other and find mentors to connect, within and outside the educational space," say Founders Jasmine Kok and Meghan Smyth.
The two have amplified their mission through a series of events, culminating with the She Knows Tech Summit.
Established in 2021, the multi-day event includes workshops, masterclasses, a job fair, showcases, camps, and conversations moderated by GRAMMY-winning engineers, and is presented by 30+ gender expansive audio professionals. The hybrid event "created an empowering experience for our community to learn from role models that represent them in the space."
She Knows Tech has chapters in Valencia and Boston, and maintains partnerships with other organizations, like We Are Moving the Needle, She is the Music, and industry heavy hitters around the world, from the Audio Engineering Society to Spitfire Audio.
Founded by Emily Lazar, Chief Mastering Engineer for The Lodge, We Are Moving The Needle is an "inclusive organization working to create measurable change by empowering women in the recording and professional audio industry with the education, equipment and the mentorship needed to succeed at the highest levels."
Only 2.6 percent of producers and audio engineers are women, according to the USC Annenberg Inclusion in the Recording Studio study, Lazar noted. "Iit was a sobering reality, and I knew then that I had to do something to change that. It was hard for me to understand how the music industry at large was failing so miserably at something that, in actuality, isn’t very difficult to address."
"In addition to donating scholarships, equipment, and funds to We Are Moving The Needle," says Lazar, "those in positions of power can simply hire more women. They can make a conscious effort to consider women for producing and engineering roles on every record."
We Are Moving the Needle's advisory board includes an embarrassment of riches in terms of experience, success, knowledge, and accolades. Their members include Alanis Morissette, Brandi Carlile, Brittany Howard, Liz Phair, Imogen Heap, Linda Perry, and HAIM.
"I always say," reminds Lazar, "‘if you can see it, you can be it. Representation matters."
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